In this episode, our experts dive into why prioritizing people creates a more positive and supportive workplace culture and ultimately drives success for the business.
There is a strong relationship between the business’ bottom line and workplace culture. Companies that prioritize their company culture can see a substantial 33% increase in revenue, highlighting the undeniable link between a strong workplace culture and financial success.1
Human Resources (HR) plays a vital role in making a business’ most important asset – its people – feel valued and supported, enabling them to deliver their best work. This is imperative for any enterprise undergoing major change. By creating a culture inclusive of well-being, companies can foster a more people-first environment while delivering on strategic business outcomes.
In this episode, our experts dive into why prioritizing people creates a more positive and supportive workplace culture and ultimately drives success for the business.
Source: Organizational Culture: What Leaders Need to Know
Featured Experts
Tom Rourke00:02
Hello and welcome to the latest edition of The Progress Report. I'm Tom Rourke, Vice President for Design, Insights and Innovation at Kyndryl and your host for today's episode. I think none of us would disagree with the statement that there's a strong relationship between workplace culture and business bottom line, but what we perhaps don't appreciate is how that's borne out by the data companies that prioritize their company culture can see substantial, indeed, 33% increases in revenue, highlighting a really, really strong link between the investments in developing culture and financial success.
Tom Rourke00:41
I'm delighted to be joined today by Matt Elliot, who's the Chief People Officer for Bank of Ireland, and my colleague Maryjo Charbonnier, who is our Chief Human Resource Officer here at Kyndryl. Maryjo, Matt, you're both very welcome to The Progress Report.
Maryjo Charbonnier 00:54
Thanks, Tom Great to be here.
Matt Elliott00:56
Thank you, Tom Good to be here.
Tom Rourke00:58
So Matt, may I start with you? I know the team set a very challenging question for you, which was, describe how the culture of Bank of Ireland has changed since its establishment in 1783 but maybe, if I could reframe it as, as you came into a really well established culture at the bank, maybe what were your perceptions of that culture and how it has kind of evolved in your understanding since this foundation?
Matt Elliott01:22
We're over 241, years old at Bank of Ireland. So I'm mindful, as some of your listeners will be in the USA, we're nearly as old as the country of America, and actually we're twice as old as our home base in the Republic of Ireland. You definitely feel that legacy, but it's a brilliant thing because, I mean, in the DNA of what the bank does, it's interwoven with the Society of Ireland. So over a long period of time, the organization's seen incredible changes, of course, and when you think about those that are more recent. Only around 50 years ago, that in the bank, women who got married defaulted into retirement, whatever their age. And then I think about, you know, more recently, 1993 in Ireland, being gay was decriminalized. And so some of these changes in society are not that long ago, and they sort of form a more recent context, of course. And my time period is just the last six years, but in that time, we've had a pandemic, we've had a cost of living crisis, and it feels like there's a pace of change and challenge that is constant, if not picking up all the time. And so really, it's about making sure that our cultural changes fit within the context of the time, Tom, and our colleagues have responded brilliantly to the changes that we've bringing about. Our engagement has improved by 20% over the last five years. So we're moving with the times. We're making sure that we're supporting our customers in the right way. And actually that means that change in the organization has been required and very much accepted and supported by our colleagues.
Tom Rourke02:55
Maryjo, obviously a very different story for Kyndryl. I know from the very outset, you made and led very strong statements about the centrality of culture to the establishment of Kyndryl. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about that and the motivation behind having cultures such as central tenet of the establishment of Kyndryl.
Maryjo Charbonnier 03:13
It's not often that you ever get to choose from the beginning at the creation, you know, one of the world's largest startups, with 90,000 employees all over the world. How do you want the culture to evolve? And so we were really thoughtful from the beginning, as we wanted to become not only a partner of choice, but an employer of choice. And the work on our culture actually started grounded in customer and employee research, and then we successively included more and more levels of the employee population in defining our culture, which we call The Kyndryl Way, because in a services organization, how your employees behave in front of your customer is really what's important as part of your brand, and that's where we came up with the words of restless, empathetic and devoted to shared success as expressions of behavior and principles we wanted to see deeply embedded in the culture, because that's what customers and employees said they wanted more of as we became an independent company. As well as a second part of The Kyndryl Way--and you know this well, Tom--is flat, fast and focused, and that's how we organize our work, to stay focused on the customer. So I think having a really kind of dedicated expression of the culture behaviorally, is important.
Tom Rourke03:28
What are the things that are important? Maybe I start with you, Matt. When you are bringing some change, about the things that you need to work on at an individual level to get people to buy into the importance of culture and whatever change is maybe needed in that culture.
Matt Elliott04:50
Well, Tom, I think you've got to have a really clear sense of identity and direction, always. Otherwise, how can you go about achieving change? To me that goes back to actually, we want to be a great place for customers to bank with, but what goes hand-in-hand with that is being a great place for the colleagues to be at work. And the two have really just aligned and integrated and become the same thing. I certainly learned a lot more about that during the pandemic, actually, and I saw when we were in lockdown, how much our colleagues looked to the organization to fill the gap that they didn't have in society anymore. So we responded to that. We saw a rise in mental health issues with our colleagues that weren't work-related they were as a consequence of everything else that was going on in their lives. And at that point, we were very clear that we wanted to be a support. It doesn't matter what the origin of the problem is. We've done a lot of work around supporting colleagues who suffered domestic violence. I mentioned domestic violence because, by definition, it's domestic it's not workplace, but we still want to be there to support our people as best we can. So when you pull all that together now, the way I think about it is we really look to recognize inside the bank what our people are experiencing outside of the bank, and bringing all that together gets you back to that idea that we're a great bank for customers to bank with, but we're also a great place for our colleagues to work in, and we've built a stronger connection as a result, and that's what's really now driving our culture. Yes, starting off with real clarity about what you want to achieve, but actually, I think learning and responding along the way and making the connections that we've made, and in that sense, I think individual needs have really come together with what's great for the company, but also for our colleagues as well.
Tom Rourke06:39
And Maryjo I know from the very outset, Martin, our CEO, made statements about talent, which was all about, always try to hire people that were smarter than yourself. So that was obviously around skills, but that deeper relationship about the full person, like not just the skills and the contribution, but the whole person. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that, particularly also, because obviously we've quite a big footprint in like 80 plus countries. So maybe, what are the challenges that come with that kind of territory as well?
Maryjo Charbonnier 07:04
One of the things I would recommend for the listeners out there is, if you're going to manage culture, pick a definition of them. There's lots of them. Pick one that kind of resonates with your organization, that you can rally everyone around. And then I think we really created a guiding coalition in terms of we work as an integrated team with our transformation office, our comms, marketing team and HR teams together. Using that team to actually write a plan about what you're going to change for employees, getting at that individual element. And then I think the framework we've used--and we've been pretty systematic about this--is looking at culture through the lens of behavior, systems and symbols. If I've learned anything in this job, is that your systems, whether it's your promotional systems, your finance, your human capital, both maybe the technology that supports them and the way you run them, can make changing the culture either wind behind your sails or make it like cement. They hold the culture so tightly; those systems just become the expression of new culture and new behavior. And then I think we've learned the power of symbols and something maybe people don't talk about, but in our first ever management meeting, we spent most of the time talking about culture, not actually the numbers and the business and the goals, that, in and of itself, was a powerful symbol that we were going to work differently. And culture is like a garden. You have to tend it every day.
Tom Rourke08:28
You're absolutely right. And maybe Matt, if I could come back to you. Because, from your own point, Matt, in the bank, things that have been important in your experience, you made that example of the domestic violence piece. There's all sorts of social barriers to that. What are the things you need to do as a leadership team to convey that you're serious and authentic about your culture?
Matt Elliott08:30
Most important thing around evolving a culture, having sort of set the direction around what you want to achieve, is to listen. That's always been the case; I'm sure always will be. And then, understanding the impact that has on customers as well. Really just tapping into what's happening in our people's lives has been a key connection to being authentic about our interest in what's happening for our people, inside and outside of the organization, and we've certainly found over the years that taking a quite programmatic approach to wellbeing really has its benefits. So what we tend to do is is cluster the supports that we've got around a particular program. So for example, a couch-to-5k program, where we run a fittest teams approach, because these are areas that everybody can get involved at all levels of the organization, right across the geographies that we're in and enjoy doing something together, which obviously isn't the day job. Creates a connection that's very powerful, and it's led to us having spin offs around that as to how we just engage and develop the culture. For example, an Instagram account that we've got; it's private to the organization, but we've got over a third of our colleagues utilizing this Instagram account, and it's just focused around wellbeing only make sure we don't do any other communication through it. And it's another way in which I think we've just really connected with our people and shown what's important about building the right culture.
Tom Rourke10:16
You mentioned at the beginning the pandemic and the impact that had. I mean, I will just interject with a personal story, is that one of the things that I realized to the technology at the time was that actually certain people emerged more strongly in the context of this technology than others. So I had a particular role at the time which it was very full-on in the room, large groups of people coming together. And what I noticed, actually, when we went to this mode, was that the more introverted people, who turned out also to be actually neurodiverse people, were suddenly making a much more active contribution, right? So maybe, if there are two things that explore with you, Matt, one around the extent with the tech, which the technology has actually facilitated some of the things that you've been trying to do, but also maybe talk a little bit about the work you've done around neurodiversity within the bank.
Matt Elliott11:06
We actually did some research in Ireland into just levels of neuro diversity and the approaches around it, and that told us that 26% of people are neuro divergent themselves or an immediate family member is so that was the classification that we gave it. So again, as we think about both our colleagues and the customer base and the impact that we can have, it definitely got us thinking. Additional question that we asked was, for those who were neurodivergent, had they told their employer? And 48% hadn't told their employer, which I think is an incredible number of people who are just not having the best conversations day-in-day-out, in their organization about how they can be at their best. When we fast forward now, we've got really strong e-learning, which over 60% of the organization has voluntarily done. We've trained all our managers to understand neurodiversity better, and we now have 140 what we call "neuro positive ambassadors," so people who we've trained to a high level of understanding and can help in terms of signposting to further support that are right across the organization. And the aim for all of that is to celebrate the unique contribution that every colleague in the organization can make. The special thing everybody has got is the way that they think. And we just recognize that some people need possibly a little more support or adjustment for them to make their best contribution. And then, when you think about the technology around that, firstly, we work a hybrid model, and just having the opportunity to vary how people work, and using technology in that way has undoubtedly helped on neurodivergent colleagues. And then we've utilized some technology around for those who are looking to attract the organization, making sure our job ads are phrased right, and using AI technology around just getting the wording right to be attractive, really, to everyone. Our approach is to be welcoming to all.
Tom Rourke13:03
Maryjo in our own instance, we've obviously put a great focus on our KINs, and one of them obviously focuses particularly in this area. I know my experience of a lot of those is that actually it helps me speak much more positively to my own kids about the place I work in a way that I probably haven't spoken about other places I've worked. But maybe you could expand a little bit on the approach we've taken to these issues.
Maryjo Charbonnier 13:24
As we've come and looked at sort of the culture and The Kyndryl Way and those you know words like restless, empathetic and devoted--and I knew when we decided to put empathy, if you will, on the poster from the start, kind of goes at a really high bar for the culture--what we ask ourselves in HR and as leaders in the organization outside of HR is, "how does that value, how does that principle of empathy sort of manifest?" Back to symbols for a second. What we name things matters. You know, when we changed our performance management process, we called it "compass," because it was about getting some place together as a shared journey. And the original roots in Latin mean to travel together. Don't underestimate the power that, you know, just like simple things can have. The second one is when we started, you know, we were coming out of the pandemic, we moved to a standard global program that supports physical, social, mental and financial well being, we call it be well at Kyndryl one of the things we realize employees we're struggling with is not necessarily their own mental health, but somebody in their family or their household. So be well offers 24 hour professional certified mental well being support and counseling, not only to employees, but to family members and our kindred inclusion networks, which are employee resource groups, are just fundamental to our culture, and we have, I think, over 60 of them globally. So many of our employees tell us that they just love our KINs, as we call them. And lastly, one other thing is we run a mindfulness practice within Kyndryl. We have over 3,000 employees who sign up to meditate together, and it's something that's also really valued in terms of that social and mental well being.
Tom Rourke15:08
My perception of this conversation--it has been really interesting--there is a really sound business value in all of the things that you guys have talked about here. The motivation is very focused on the individual, but this is by no means a layering on of something. And I think the other thing that strikes me as I look around what's going on in the world is that actually the there's even greater value in these really authentic programs. As we talk about that business value, I guess there's also this thing about measurement, and I guess the importance of regularly surveying. I know both organizations invest heavily in looking at engagement surveys. Matt, maybe you could just talk about what is the role of kind of measurement and communicating that measurement in these programs.
Matt Elliott15:51
So key metrics for us are customer net promoter scores, but just as the same our colleague then play net promoter scores, and so it's tracking our progress as an organization as we deliver externally, but also ensuring that we're making the right progress internally. We do an annual survey, because that really helps us track the trends around what we're doing. So it gives us the chance to just take a step back and look at the bigger picture over a period of time. We also, though, look at how we're having a specific impact around the interventions that we make. One thing that we do is invest in our manager development. I think that's really essential. And we ask managers, "what impact are we making?" to make sure that, on an ongoing basis, we're doing the right things. So it's a constant to and fro in the organization. And the final thing, I'd say is just the informal interaction too, and I don't think we should ever forget that. So as important as getting the data over a period of time is just as important is not forgetting conversations along the way, listening sessions around round tables. I think just as important, in fact, even more so, from immediacy and real insight to what's happening. And again, that talks to just a very trusted and open culture as well, if you're able to have those kind of conversations.
Tom Rourke17:10
Maryjo, I know that you drive a very extensive program around measuring engagement, but actually, more importantly, making sure that we all respond to that. Because, actually, again, one of the things I've noticed in our culture is, you know, I've been part of organization, a lot of organizations where these surveys would happen every year. I don't think I've ever been part of a culture where the response in terms of making sure that we follow up has been quite so diligent. So maybe talk a little bit about like, what informed that for you as the right way to go.
Maryjo Charbonnier 17:38
We have a whole employee listening strategy. So as you join us, we listen and ask you. After your onboarding period, we listen and ask you. We do twice a year, sort of, you know, engagement and pulse survey, and we ask you, and then if you leave, we ask you things. So I think one thing we've learned the importance of is listening across that sort of Kyndryl life cycle. Part of our job as people, leaders and as Kyndryls is to be responsible for the well being of others. And so we worked with our executive team and leaders this year to talk about what it means to be responsible to others in terms of I have a plan to build the skills and talent of my team. I'm building an inclusive, collaborative environment at work. And then lastly, that I'm a good role model myself, of The Kyndryl Way and a good collaborator with my peers. Meaning, if you're a leader, sometimes you're the leader, but sometimes you're the player. And this year, what we're doing in our listening is we've actually mapped our questions to measure those things so that we can give managers feedback on how are they doing at achieving that part of responsibility to others.
Tom Rourke18:49
I think it's fair to say that the HR profession, the perception of the profession, has changed, but obviously you two, both are particularly passionate and experienced about the importance of culture I'd be really interested in if either of you would be willing to share a story about what's brought you to this particular perspective that you both have on your careers and the way to approach your profession.
Matt Elliott19:09
I mean, firstly, I'd say the world of work has significantly changed since I joined it. The mindset around how to get the most out of your people has moved on significantly. And then I think about a personal story, the thing that jumps to mind for me, that just came to mind as you asked the question there was actually when I was talking to some managers in Bank of Ireland, and so I started to talk about, you know, when my kids grow up, when they're in the workplace, and by the way, you know, my kids are neurodivergent themselves. I think a lot about what the world of work will be like in the future and how it will be for them. When I was talking to managers around this and saying, in a number of years time, when my kids enter the workforce, do you know if something wasn't okay for them I'd really hope that their organization they'd be minded to identify that and support them. And when you think about it in that way, we've all got people we care about who are under the guardianship of somebody else today. And what matters is, how are they taking care of them? What environment are they creating? And so the moment that really broke through for me was when I started to think about the responsibility I have to create an environment for every day, 10,000 people who others care about and I hope in the future that wherever my kids go and work, you know their employers care about them in the same way that I do for the 10,000 people who are at BoI at the moment.
Maryjo Charbonnier 20:41
Early on, I thought I was going to pursue a career in the church, and then an HR job came along, and I thought, well, that pays better right now, so let's take that one. And I think along the way, in my HR career, I really realized it wasn't my job, it was my calling as service. My mother used to say to me all along, you know, when I was growing up, "Maryjo, always leave a place better than you found it." And I think that's really how I approach what I do. And this is my, you know, third time as a public company, CHRO. And as I look back on those other ones, even today, I test myself as I look back in those places, are those places better for having me been there and been the head of HR? It's not just the things that we do today, but it's the things we do today and do they leave it a better stronger business, a better place to work.
Tom Rourke21:30
We like to focus on progress here as The Progress Report. If you were to figure out, think about one piece of advice you might offer to someone in your profession embarking on that kind of growth path, and as a guide for them for the future, what would that piece of advice be?
Matt Elliott21:47
We should all consider the impact that we have on other people. I think ultimately, that's it for me, both in terms of the professional contribution that we make to the organization we're in, but also along the way, day-in-day-out, to people who we meet and get along with as we look to achieve what we look to achieve. There's a statement, isn't there that you always hear from CEOs around "people are our greatest asset." And I couldn't agree more, but I'm not sure that people in all organizations would always feel that that's what they are. And I think as we've touched on this conversation, actually it's very reachable, from a mindset perspective, to get into that. And I also think that when we do, we can not only have a great impact on the day-to-day lives of the people in our organizations, but we can reach beyond and into our society so much. And I think that is a fantastic thought when you have the opportunity to do that. And so certainly that's what motivates me, and that's what I'd ask somebody starting their career to think about and to look, to really, sort of pick the baton up and carry on when I have to hand it over, and when Maryjo has to hand it over, which we hope isn't for some time soon.
Tom Rourke22:59
And Maryjo, how would you build on your mother's advice to always leave it better. But what would your own advice be to somebody?
Maryjo Charbonnier 23:05
I think, you know, when you start a career in HR, people spend, I think, what is it, almost 60 or 70% of their life at work. You know, you have to be almost like a scientist or an archeologist, about like, what's going on at the workplace, and be constantly curious one in the HR career. And this may surprise you, but how does the business actually make money? Because if you really can put yourself to study on the drivers of it, you're a better HR person. I found myself always trying to be curious. I had a job once, when I asked why they picked me for it, I worked for a food manufacturing company. They were like, "Maryjo, we think you're the only HR manager who talked to the potato receiving clerk in the back room." So I just go in there and talk to them, you know, like, "what do you do? How's your job work? What works well for you? What drives you crazy?" And so always being curious about how people do the work has served me well in an HR career, and then being able to figure that to "can I help the business be more productive?" And so I would say, keep asking questions. Be curious about how people do the work. Be curious about how the company makes money, and be curious about how you can use technology to make the work a better business and a better place to work.
Tom Rourke24:16
One of the challenges we face here at The Progress Report is that there's often just not enough time for what can be fascinating discussions, and today, especially so. I was particularly struck as we went through our conversation about the importance of trust and authenticity. When you approach the issues of culture, and we approach the well being of our employees, it benefits our business, but it benefits far more than our business. It benefits the people in our care and the people that they care about. Thank you for listening today's episode, and if you enjoyed it, please do share with your colleagues and friends, but also like and subscribe for future editions. Thank you for listening to The Progress Report.