In this episode, experts recently inducted into Kyndryl’s Distinguished Technical Program discuss gender representation, equality, and equity in the tech industry. Hear their personal perspectives about what makes an impact and where the tech and business worlds still have room to grow.
Despite tremendous strides in representation of women in STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics), a significant gender gap still persists in higher education and the workforce. Although there is a global shortage of skills in most of the technological fields driving the Fourth Industrial Revolution, women still only account for 28% of engineering graduates and 40% of graduates in computer science and informatics. In cutting-edge fields such as artificial intelligence, just one in five professionals is a woman.
In this episode, experts recently inducted into Kyndryl’s Distinguished Technical Program discuss gender representation, equality, and equity in the tech industry. Hear their personal perspectives about what makes an impact and where the tech and business worlds still have room to grow.
Hear from our guests Karen Cheng, Chief Architect, CTO of Automation, Kyndryl; Sarah B. Nelson, Chief Design Officer, Co-Creation; Distinguished Designer, Kyndryl; Kitty Smith, Distinguished Engineer, Global SRE CustomerLiaison, Kyndryl.
Nel Akoth 0:03
Welcome to yet another episode of the progress report where we will be discussing a topic that is so dear and near to my heart, women in STEM or science, technology, engineering and math. Despite tremendous strides in representation of women in STEM, there is still a significant gender gap in higher education and the workforce. Now, although there is global shortage in general, within the tech industry, women still only account for 28% of engineering graduates, and just about 40% of graduates in computer science and informatics. If I take that even deeper in the cutting edge fields like artificial intelligence, that statistic is just one of every five professionals is a woman. In our episode today, experts recently inducted into Kyndryl's distinguished technical program will discuss gender representation, equality, and equity in the tech industry.
I'm excited and honored to be joined today by three brilliant women. Karen Cheng, is Kyndryl's, Chief Architect and CTO of automation and co creation for Canada. Sarah B. Nelson is our Chief Design Officer cocreation. And Kitty Smith, is the Global Site Reliability Engineering liaison. Welcome, and thank you so much for joining the conversation today. I'd love to hear from each of you on what motivated you to pursue a career in tech. Kitty, I'll start with you.
Kitty Smith 1:53
Well, I think I actually came about this through the path of least resistance, I have always been really good at math and science. I studied math in college, and then went on to get a Masters in engineering. And so you know, it just was a natural progression. For me, I had the opportunity to work at the University where I studied in technology, so supporting the technical operations of the university, and then ultimately coming to Kyndryl, to actually pursue additional opportunities within technology. And within Kyndryl, one of the things that I really enjoyed, and I think coming from that STEM background, you're really constantly looking for stimulation. So having the opportunity to just change to different job roles along the path of my career, that's really been one of the key elements of what has kept me with the company for so long.
Nel Akoth 2:52
I can just tell it from your passion, as you say that you seem to truly love it. That's great.
Kitty Smith 2:57
I do.
Nel Akoth 2:58
Yes. Fantastic. Now, Karen, what about you?
Karen Cheng 3:02
Well, like Kitty, I also followed a very traditional path, I studied engineering, in school, and I just really liked technology, because you can really see technology at work every day in your life. And I recently had an opportunity to do a STEM event, a group of 10 to 12 year olds. And I remember thinking, okay, how can I motivate them to pursue a career in technology? And the way I approached it was was like this, I asked them "what's your favorite app?" And of course, they came back and they said TikTok, Instagram, and I said, "Well, my favorite app is any app that delivers food to my house. Because I like to eat." And, so, as an architect and when I look at something like that, I have to think about how do I design this app? How do I push it out to your cell phone? How can I make it 24, by seven? How can I connect to the restaurant tours? How can I take your payments securely? And how can I include that GPS function that allows me to track my driver so that I know the second he arrives at my house with my order. And this kind of example, really, I think made our jobs very relatable to the kids because they could see that this was technology at work and they could see that current technology can actually be very funny.
Nel Akoth 4:31
You know, as you were talking about you loving to eat and being able to track the driver. Can you imagine what 10 years ago we never even thought that would happen
Karen Cheng 4:39
For sure!
Nel Akoth 4:39
Here we are today. You can gauge I want to eat at 7:30 and for sure that driver will be there at 7:30. Sarah, you've held design leadership roles across many industry. Why is technology so appealing to you?
Sarah B. Nelson 4:53
So I like to say I'm the A in STEM, science, technology, arts, engineering and math. So I Surely grew up at the intersection of technology and the arts. So my father is an algorithmic composer. And my first programming language was APL on a terminal to an IBM 360 mainframe. So I kind of grew up, knowing that you could make music with technology, and you could express that you needed to do both. So the path to design came through that I was a coder, I did front end development. And the more that I worked, the more I needed to really understand how to create compelling experiences, that it became about designing for people, what is the meaning behind the code. And so that's kind of the has been my path. Since then it's working in ecosystems, it's working and experience ecosystems and looking at whole contexts. It's interesting that in design in tech, the women's numbers are more like 50%. It's a pretty interesting just to see that happening as a way that women came into technology in other ways. So I did do computer science, also in university, but it combined that with electronic music, and time based media. So that's another entry. Design is another entry path for women into tech that I think sometimes people don't think about.
Nel Akoth 6:14
How cool is that? I really like it, especially from the angle of creating an experience. And that brings a whole level of appreciation on what technology can do. Thank you so much, Sarah, you know, Kitty, I loved the way you know, brought your love for technology, that it was a natural path. And it's truly an exciting area to be. I started myself I started in the field. My undergrad was in computer science and math. And I really loved it. Now, don't ask me well, somewhere down the career highway, I veered into another area that I loved. But technology continues to be a big passion for me as well. Can you share with our listeners, what it means to be recognized through the distinguished technical program at Kyndryl? What do you have to do to achieve that?
Kitty Smith 7:04
It is actually quite an honor. It recognizes a lifetime of experience and leadership throughout your career. Like I said, this is really an accumulation of leadership experience and impact throughout your career and not just impact to the company itself, but to our clients. And that is probably the most compelling reason why this is important to me. And it really represents how I have really taken the perspective of our customers to heart and really strived to make sure that I was meeting their business needs through the application of technology, and being able to apply my knowledge and experience over time to better address some of those business problems. And I think but that's where I'm intersecting the business side with the technology and seeing the outcomes directly resulting through that work that I'm doing. And in building those relationships with the client that probably is the pinnacle of all of the work that I do. And what gives me the most satisfaction is that building those relationships with our customers, and and then working alongside of them to achieve some of their key strategy and objectives.
Thank you and putting the customer in the heart of everything we do, Kitty, that's just really profound, because that's why we are here. Karen, if I just asked you, given all the great things you've done, what is the project that you are most proud of? And why?
Karen Cheng 8:42
Well, there's been so many projects over the years, this July actually marks my 25 year anniversary with the company. So very hard to pick just one. But I'd have to say in recent years, it would be my work as the global architect for the cloud automation community framework. So this was a cloud native automation platform that we built for Kyndryl clients. And it really was such a big scale project. We rolled it out globally to 800 accounts, it was very closely aligned with the corporate strategy of the Red Hat acquisition at the time. So for me, it was certainly the biggest project that I've ever worked on. And the fact that my core architecture is still being used today, and is part of the Kyndryl events, delivery platform is really special to me.
Nel Akoth 9:37
Karen, I think I'd sit the whole day and just listen to all the cool stuff that you're doing. They are so exciting. Nothing but good comes from bringing more women into STEM just as we've heard from all of you, Sarah, what do you think would be the biggest impact on encouraging other women and girls to pursue careers in tech?
Sarah B. Nelson 9:57
As I mentioned, about 50 percent end user experiencers are women. And I think that part of the attraction to this part of the field comes from a lot of what Karen is talking about seeing through this or the human experience. So the, the way food arrives at your doorstep, that's a what we would call service design. So I think that's an entry point, so you can see this tangible impact that you're making something real. And then I really love the way that Karen talked about, then you can back in and say, But isn't it interesting? When you think about the security of that data? What is the data that's needed? What are the kinds of technology that needs to be in place to have the driver show up at 7:30? For me, it's also like, what is the driver needs to do? What is the driver's experience like? It's being able to draw from these stories and tangible things, and then being able to say, but that's, that's actually math. And that's architecture. And that's coding. And if you can find the intersection of those two things, I think that that's where that kind of sweet spot as an entry point lies.
Nel Akoth 11:02
And you know, as you say, I'll just pick up on a statistic that you said, which is 50%, of user experiencers, is women. And I think, Kitty, you also mentioned it that naturally, as women, we have a more gravitation and tendency to really go into relationships in a different way. But you know, Karen, you talk to a group of young up and coming STEM individuals. But I keep wondering that, with all the progress we've made as a society, we still have this gender disparity in STEM fields. Karen, do you have anything to add to that as you as again, you recently having spent some time with our up and coming STEM leaders?
Karen Cheng 11:41
Yeah, it's very interesting, because when I do my mentoring, with female engineering students, as part of my outreach, I find no matter what their background, what they're studying, they all have the same question for me, they all want to know what's it like to work in a very male dominated industry. And I always try to steer them away from that line of thinking, I try to remind them it's not just about the workplace, it's not just about men versus women. Because really in the workplace and in life, you're always going to be subjected to conscious and subconscious biases. So if I feel that I am discriminated against, I don't know, if it's because I'm a woman, or if it's because I'm a person of color. It could be because, I, for a long time, I looked very young for my age. And, I'm five foot two on a good day, and a very small person. And I don't have a lot of physical stature. And on some days, maybe I'm just not wearing the right clothes, I don't have the right look. So who knows, right, and I, so I try to bring the girls back to just remembering that it's all about learning how to gracefully navigate a world that's full of these kinds of biases. And then to tune it out. So don't internalize any of that don't spend any energy trying to figure out which bias is in play, and just tune it all out as noise.
Nel Akoth 13:12
I agree with you, Karen. I think this has something to do with the biases as well, on how some of us show up and really take a charge up that lane of technology. Do you have anything else to add on that? I mean, what are your views?
Kitty Smith 13:25
Yeah, I think that there are some challenges with women in technology and kind of following that career path. Especially if you're you're looking at also being a mother, right? And so that's was one of the challenges that I faced earlier in my career is trying to balance this desire to really progress as a technical leader, but then also attend to my family and my children. And so I think that's a real difficulty that, that we need to be able to overcome and to allow individuals to balance that, to have that work life balance in order to help them to progress in that career. I think in a lot of ways, it can be a deterrent, that if you think why I want to have a family but you're looking at the STEM fields, there's a lot of emotional and mental rigor that's required in these fields. And so, at the end of the day, you're exhausted and so how do you balance that with have any then come home and take care of your children? And, really, I don't know that I have the answer, but that is definitely something that has to be taken into consideration. And for me, I had a great partner who really balanced the load. But I'm not sure that all women have that same situation in their lives. And so that that can be a real challenge and so maybe on the company's side that they can help to facilitate this kind of balance in the way that they organize or frame and structure, the organization itself. Yeah, something to take into consideration.
Nel Akoth 15:14
I do think that there's a bit of, you know, a higher demand side when you in tech, because I can imagine a lot of times you're trying to fix or really close out on something, and that could have no end time. So, is it fair to say that, in this field in particular, there could be that essence of trying to get that balance is always not easy, given the demand of whatever it is you're trying to work on, or the urgency of what you're trying to work on?
Kitty Smith 15:42
I think not only are the circumstances a challenge, but also the way that we frame these thoughts in our minds that we have to act in a certain way so that we're not perceived as weak or as overly feminine, and that we're choosing family over our careers. So I think that there is a cultural mind shift that needs to occur within organizations that don't continue to propagate that way of thinking.
Nel Akoth 16:13
Totally agree. Totally agree. Sarah, you know, every time I talk to you, I learn a lot. And so I want to take this conversation a little bit, one downstairs on design. Now, in your opinion, as a designer, what impact does the design have on progression of women, just just thinking of that field that you use, so teach me a lot on every day.
Sarah B. Nelson 16:38
We have a lot of different sub disciplines inside of design. So the ones that you may think of off the top of your head would be things like visual design, so things like brand or packaging or color, the things that you know, that you can see on the surface. Other disciplines include design research, which can come from an ethnography background, so social sciences, it can also come from data science, but it's this sort of looking at the world in this holistic way. And making meaning out of that, often research is a great entry, you're able to bring a lot of your world experiences into that. So whether that's from having a business experience, or like I said, Social Sciences, user experience design is another one. And the reason for that is I think that part of it is the relational. Seeing the world and perceiving the world as the way that humans experience it. So often, that is something that you can draw on directly. And that's, I think, part of the attraction for it. The really big skill that I think great designers have is being able to pull all those things I just mentioned together, and then being able to also relate that into the the technology. So you're not separating yourself out and saying, okay, great human experience, it looks, you know, fantastic visual language. And we have great data to back it up, then the next question is like, how does the technology actually help make all of that makes sense? There tend to be fewer women in what we are emerging more and more in the field called Creative Technology. Creative technologists are people who are like tinkerers, there are people who are interested in things like, you know, how, how would sensors, like sensors in a room create a different kind of way that you experience in office, for example, there are people who are like, just really interested in playing with how that impacts the human experience. So I think there's a lot of areas for growth there as well. In fact, I'd love to see a lot more women in that space. Because I think that, again, that relational human centricity, and then the tinkering, the tinkering with the technology, I think there's a lot of power there.
Kitty Smith 18:44
I was just gonna interject there, as I'm listening to you, Sarah. And I'm coming from the site reliability engineering profession. And it's all focused on the user experience, the end user experience. And so I think we're starting to see more shift towards that end user experience in the work that we're doing in development. And you have design thinking. So it's, it's kind of encouraging to see that broadening. And that's where I think having a diversity of thought with both men and women balancing that you're going to have a completely different experience or outcome in applying some of these technical methodologies and approaches in practice.
Nel Akoth 19:33
Yeah, and Kitty that rings home to me a lot because in my role of transformation, and as you can all, you know, are experiencing it, there's a lot of change. And the whole thought behind it is how is that being experienced by our team? How is technology going to truly drive a different environment for all kin roles in a way that you experience is very different from what you had and the level of being able to embrace it is even higher. So Oh, this is just really tying in so well to what I do every day.
Sarah B. Nelson 20:04
In a lot of parts of the industry, we move away from calling our role user experience, I've been using that word a lot. But and the reason is, is that all of us are actually all of us are responsible for the experience of whether it's our customers, or the unintended impacts on society, of the choices that we make, and that all of us are accountable for that not just one group and one department but all of us.
Nel Akoth 20:27
I have two questions that I'm so eager to hear your perspectives on all the three of you. For each of us, the journey to get to where we are today is different. And for the most part, you know, we all gain guidance along the way from people who have done this before us. So my first question for each of you is, what is the best piece of advice you have received? And Kitty, I'll start with you on this one.
Kitty Smith 20:55
Okay, this one's an easy one. And my first team leader, he told me, you get to do what's right for the business. And that has stuck in my mind for 20 plus years. And when I think of what's right for the business, it's not just the company itself, it's the customer, the customer is at the center of our business. And so, in everything that I've ever done, I tried to set aside my own personal agenda and work towards that end.
Nel Akoth 21:25
Karen, what's yours?
Karen Cheng 21:27
The best piece of advice I've ever gotten is to adopt an analytics kind of mindset, to stay motivated through the ups and downs of our career, I look back at the last 30-60-90 days, when you're having a bad day. And just look at it from the perspective of you know, are the bad days just outliers? Or are they starting to form a trend, in which case, that means I probably need to change something. So don't make any decisions just based on a couple of data points, is really kind of my takeaway from that piece of advice. And it's interesting, because I work with data every day. But, I had never looked at my personal and professional life from that kind of lens. So I thought the advice was, was very profound. And it was kind of a great reminder to just stop, take a breath and look at everything holistically.
Nel Akoth 22:21
So true, because we have those bad days, and they tend to take you down a rabbit hole sometimes, isn't it?
Karen Cheng 22:27
Yeah. And I think as women, you know, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be perfect. And we're very hard on ourselves when things don't go the way we wanted them to. So I think this is really a good reminder to step back and take a look at the bigger picture.
Nel Akoth 22:42
Love it. Thank you so much, Sarah, what's yours?
Sarah B. Nelson 22:44
It's about bringing your entire self as you are, into whatever it is you're doing, that you are hired because of a value that someone sees in you that you can bring to the business that you can bring to your coworkers, and not to hide that. And also seek out organizations like Kyndryl that want you for your individual value. You know, I notice, if I take like Job choices on there and project choices, is it going to allow me to be able to bring what I have to the organization? Or is it going to say that it wants me, but then try to turn me into everybody else, or I allow myself to be turned into everybody else. So it's that thing of like the, you know, we take their personal responsibility and accountability. But we're also part of a group.
Nel Akoth 23:35
And you know, really, we talk a lot about bringing our whole selves to work. And I would say that if you look many years back, that was not really the case. But it truly is an important aspect today, given that we spend, almost, you know, three quarters of the time at work. What does bringing your authentic self play in the professional success? And you know, Sarah, you talked about it, but I don't know if all of us really are able to show up the same way. So it's, it's going to be interesting to hear from each of you that how do you do it? How would you show bring your authentic self to work? How do you show up?
Sarah B. Nelson 24:14
Bringing my authentic self is a couple of things, you know, one is, it's actually around self care. So it's about setting boundaries. I'm not always great at that. But it's setting boundaries, like I have to eat. I am a human flesh blob that needs to eat. And I also need to sleep. Those boundaries have to go into saying, well actually I don't answer emails at 10 o'clock at night. Maybe at seven if something big is going on. That's a part of it is really holding that because I know myself and I know how I perform better. I'm able to be creative. I'm not nearly as grumpy if those things are taken care of. So that for me is that's my one of my daily practices to make sure I don't really take care of the Flash blob that I am.
Nel Akoth 25:02
Kitty, how would you bring your authentic self to Kyndryl?
Kitty Smith 25:05
Yeah, I think that this is a challenge. And Karen kind of touched on it, where we kind of grapple with the self criticism that we bring. So what I have to do is really kind of reframe my thinking. And I have practiced this over many years. And it's really trying to understand who I am for myself so that I can reframe those thoughts into a more positive, supportive voice.
Nel Akoth 25:38
Karen, you shared some great advice with us. But I'm just wondering, how do you show up? How do we see your authentic self at Kyndryl?
Karen Cheng 25:44
Well, I think by nature, Nel, I'm, I'm a very soft spoken, introspective kind of person, I'm not really out there. I have a very collaborative style when I'm working with my team. And I think I used to worry earlier in my career, that, that would be a hindrance, because I think there's this stereotype sometimes maybe, especially with, you know, Asian women, too, that if you are more soft spoken, that, you won't be able to lead, or that you can't make, you know, big decisions when you need to. And I think the benefit of progressing in my career and growing older and hopefully wiser is just that you learn that it just takes too much energy to adopt a persona that you're not. And you really shouldn't waste any energy on that. And you should just try to stay true to yourself true to what comes naturally to you and just own it.
Nel Akoth 26:40
Owning it, exactly! And it's so straight to the point, especially as we try to also encourage and mentor the younger, upcoming women in STEM field. Just be you just bring it in, nobody's gonna stop you. Well, as I knew it would be this has been such an energizing conversation and an important one. It's all up to all of us to pave the pathways for women rising up in the workplace, as we've all shared here, especially in the fields like stem where that gender gap is still so significant. There's a lot of work we collectively need to do to truly close that gap. I cannot thank you enough Kitty, Karen and Sarah for joining me today to discuss this topic we are all so passionate about, and you all are trailblazers on every day. So thank you for what you do. Thanks also to all our listeners for tuning into this episode of the progress report. Until next time, I am Nel Akoth.